Beyond Employment

Beyond Beautiful: Disability, Liberation, Love

Season 2, Episode 4 — Beyond Employment

🎧 Listen to the Episode

🧭 Episode Summary

Beyond Employment challenges traditional narratives about work and disability. In this episode, host Mandi is joined by disability employment advocate and employment specialist Steven Robles to explore what meaningful, accessible employment truly looks like for disabled people. Together, they unpack harmful myths about productivity, examine systemic barriers in hiring and retention, and reimagine workplaces built on dignity, access, and equity—rather than compliance alone.

🎙 Guest

Steven Robles is a Disability Employment Advocate and Employment Specialist dedicated to creating meaningful pathways to success for people with disabilities. With a background in accessibility and workforce development, he supports individuals in identifying their strengths, building confidence, and securing inclusive employment opportunities. Beyond his advocacy work, Steven is also a creative entrepreneur who designs notebooks and journals available through Amazon. His mission is rooted in empowering others to pursue independence, purpose, and long-term success. Steven brings a mix of professional expertise, lived experience, and passion for community advancement to every conversation.

💬 Key Themes

• Redefining Employment Beyond Productivity

• Systemic Barriers in Disabled Employment

• Self-Advocacy and Navigating Workplaces

• Imagining Inclusive Futures of Work

📜 Full Transcript

Mandi: Welcome to Beyond Disability Liberation, love. I'm Mandi, your Queer Christian Disabled host. Today's episode is called Beyond Employment and it invites us to rethink what work, access and dignity truly mean. In this episode, I'm joined by Steven Robles, a disability employment advocate and employment specialist. He joins me for a conversation about the systemic barriers disabled people face in the workforce and what real inclusion can look like when employment is rooted in equity rather than compliance. Together, we explore why access to meaningful work matters, how advocacy shows up in hiring and retention, and what needs to change so disabled people can thrive beyond just being employed. Steven is dedicated to creating meaningful pathways to success for people with disabilities. With a background in accessibility and workforce development, he supports individuals in identifying their strengths, building confidence, and securing inclusive employment opportunities. Beyond his advocacy work, Stephen is also a creative entrepreneur who designs notebooks and journals available through Amazon. I'll be sure to include his Amazon link in the show notes. His mission is rooted in empowering others to pursue independence, purpose and long term success. Steven brings a mix of professional expertise, lived experience and passion for community advancement to every conversation. Let's jump into today's interview.

Mandi: Hey Steven, welcome to the show.

Steven: Thanks for having me.

Mandi: Really excited to talk about employment today and especially the intersection of employment and disability. But before we get into the deep conversation, for people who may not be familiar with you, can you tell us a little bit about who you are and what led you into disability employment advocacy?

Steven: I'm an employment specialist for one of the ILCs in New York and I'm also an entrepreneur. I create and sell notebooks and journals on Amazon.

Mandi: I love that. And we're definitely going to talk more about the entrepreneurship because that's something that I'm very interested in, obviously. So I'm excited to talk about that. For folks who are not familiar with what ILC is, can you share a little bit about what that means and what the organization is?

Steven: Uh, yes. So ILC is an independent living center for those who don't know. There are 58 of them in New York, the state alone, so we have five in the five boroughs. I live in the Bronx, so I work for the local ILC for the one in the Bronx. It's called Bronx Independent Living Services. And I've been an employment specialist there for a little bit under a year. I'd worked with them before and I left in 2023. I was lucky enough that they were willing to rehire me in 2025 for that role. And I feel like it suits me for now given the fact that I was unemployed for about a year and a half and I was going through looking for work everywhere. As a person with a disability, you can imagine some of the challenges that some of us do face, prepared me for, you know, the role that I'm in now.

Mandi: That's awesome. So you're kind of getting to some of what I want us to talk about today around disability and work and kind of some of the misunderstandings that many people in the non-disabled world might have. So when you think about work, independence, and dignity for disabled people work, what feels most misunderstood or misrepresented by society?

Steven: I feel like a lot is misunderstood. Mainly most people think that people with disabilities don't work. So when they, you know, encounter us either on our way to work out and about in the community or what have you, they seem so inspired. Not in a...not in a negative way, at least, I don't take it in a negative way, but whenever I tell them like, hey, you know, I work full time, they're like, oh my goodness, that's so amazing. Like, it's so unheard of. And I've also encountered that, you know, throughout my life where, you know, you're trying to meet employers and they're like, like, can you do this? And, you know, we have to look back at them and be like, yeah, you know, as long as I want to. Right? And so I think another misconception is the fact that some employers might look at, look at us as a liability where because they don't understand, you know, the different conditions and nuances, they might look at someone and be like, oh no, what if something were to happen on the job? Then they're liable and that's not the case. The only way an employer is liable is if they put you in danger, not for, you know, just existing.

Mandi: Yeah, I really appreciate that. And it's also this idea that you're not more liable than you would be for anyone else. Like, if you are creating a safe work environment and all the things that as an employer you should be doing, then your risk is not actually any greater hiring a disabled person versus a non-disabled person. So I think that's a really great point to bring up and you're kind of sharing a little bit about your own experience as someone with a disability and work. So I want to talk more about that and understand how has your disability shaped your relationship to work, income and independence?

Steven: So, I mean, as you and many can imagine, right, we all have a level of difficulty and challenge and struggle to just get up in the morning so that's a major challenge that we all face to the point where, again, most of us are, you know, kind of discouraged and don't know how to navigate. Oh, well, if I can't navigate my own world, how can I navigate employment? So the challenges that I face is the fact that, you know, early on, when I was younger and healthier, you know, trying to get to, you know, an employer, an employer that would, I guess, accept me, so that they knew, like, hey, okay, I can, I can do this job. And then later on, it became the struggles of, okay, how can I maintain this job? Because as you know, health changes and your needs change, there are barriers that end up, additional barriers that end up happening to where sometimes you're not sure whether you can maintain a job because, you know, your health changes, you know, you might have to take time off, or you're scheduling changes where you might not be able to work the required hours. And so that ends up becoming, you know, a major challenge even in today, where remote work is more in the forthright. Not as much as during the pandemic, unfortunately, but we still have companies that promote remote work and hybrid work.

Mandi: Yeah, I totally hear you. And I think it's something that really has come to mind for me when I think about what we call dynamic disabilities or disabilities that just don't affect you the same way from day to day. And there's such a wide array of that, right? There are some conditions that are progressive, and so even your actual ability level can change from week to week, month to month over the course of years. So what you could do five years ago, you may not be able to do today. And then there are other conditions, especially for folks with chronic illness who have things like flare ups, where they could be totally productive and feeling energized for, you know, a couple of weeks, a couple of months, and then they can have a flare up in their condition, and it can really make doing the same level of work very difficult. So I really appreciate you bringing that up. And I don't think that that is something that many employers are ready for. And I do think that sometimes that can cause forms of discrimination. And I think of myself as a female. You know, we still face a lot of pay gaps and disparities in wages just for being women who may need to take more time off for things like, you know, maternity leave and taking our kids to doctors and things like that. And some of those maybe more traditional or even patriarchal roles that we have assigned to, like the male, female genders. So it's just really interesting to hear you talk about how there are still gaps because of a person's ability and how a person's ability to changes or the access can change. Right. What you need today may not be what you need tomorrow.

Steven: 100%.

Mandi: So I want to understand a little more what you feel like are some of the biggest barriers that disabled people face when trying to enter or stay in the workforce that maybe is not seen by non disabled people or the community or society at large.

Steven: We suffer from a lack of creativity when it comes to how we look at work in the United states. The traditional 9 to 5 route is kind of outdated. And that's a major barrier for, you know, people with disabilities, especially if you receive services. But you only receive services between a certain time. There's 24 hours in a day. But there are a lot of people out here that receive services for, you know, 8 to 10 hours. Right. And in order for them to navigate the world, let alone a job, is in combination with those services. So if I have a 9 to 5 job where I have to be at, at work at 9 and I have to leave by 5pm, but I only have 10 hours of service, what does that look like? I need to get ready for work. So before 9 o' clock I need assistance, and then I need assistance probably during work for something, and then I need assistance after work. And still, if you're talking about if you have somebody you know, coming in, let's say 8am, you only have one hour to get ready. So how, how realistically can a person with a disability, you know, get ready in one hour? And that's including, you know, travel and whatever else a person has to do to get ready. So you're talking about a barrier with services. Are you talking about a barrier maybe with office accommodation? A lot of companies that are unfamiliar with people with disabilities are. They're unaware of, you know, how they can assist people with disabilities to navigate work. And that can include access to a computer, right? So a smaller keyboard, a mini keyboard, a track mouse for those who don't have the ability to hold a regular mouse, a trackpad, larger monitors for the visually impaired, different software for, you know, individuals who are either visually impaired or, you know, have difficulty hearing, hearing impaired, things like that. So a lot of companies, they look at accommodations as a negative. Right? Because a lot of these things do cost money. But what they don't realize is that if you do it correctly, it doesn't necessarily cost your company money. There are places that are willing to, you know, sponsor and pay for these necessary accommodations. It's just a matter of putting in, you know, the effort to find them and contact them.

Mandi: Yeah, I think you're definitely touching on a lot of the systemic barriers that exist and ones that I personally have had to navigate as well. It really hit home for me when you were talking about the, you know, having a home attendant or an aide or a caregiver of some sort where that you require and you need to have someone either traveling with you or helping you get ready, both in the mornings and then in the evenings. And how do you manage that when that person may not be, and is often not, available 24 hours? And that alone is such a difficult system to navigate to get care, professional care. And I could do an entire conversation, an episode on that. But you're essentially trying to fit your life schedule into the schedule that the state basically gives you. And that's really challenging. So I know that it is really important for people with disabilities to be able to find workplaces that have, to your point, creative opportunities for scheduling, whether that's extended remote days where maybe your setup or your care services look different when you're home than when you're out. I know for me, at my daytime job, that's what I have. I have some remote days where I work long hours and then I work shorter hours for my in person days in order to fit those into the schedule that I have support for. So that can be really tricky to navigate. And it's also really hard to kind of present or share with an employer or a boss. Like, how do you explain all of those things to someone who is very unfamiliar with these kinds of systems that we have? And I think a lot of non-disabled people are unfamiliar with this process. They think you just hire someone and that's it. And it's not so easy. And you're not guaranteed to get the hours that you even need someone. Sometimes that alone is a fight. So I really appreciate you bringing that up and the need for different kinds of work schedules and creative thinkers in the workplace. So in talking about this, you know, we're talking about a lot of companies and I hear a lot, especially now, inclusion, or we're seeking diverse employees or we're open to people with disabilities. So there are a lot of companies that say that they're inclusive, but what does real disability affirming employment actually look like?

Steven: So to me, disability affirming employment looks like, again, you hire, you know, a good amount of people with disabilities.

Mandi: Right.

Steven: And they could be, you know, different kinds they could be invisible, visible, what have you. I really am a proponent. My, my goal, hopefully for the future, is to be a part of some type of legislation where we could put in law that companies have to hire a certain percentage of people with disabilities, similar to how in housing. A certain amount, a certain percentage of units are set aside for people with disabilities and individuals with housing vouchers. So something along that line where it's a requirement to hire, you know, let's say I'm gonna throw out a random number, but like, let's say like 5%. That's kind of a low number, but we'll go with 5%. Right. Of people with disabilities. And, and so that way, you know, you can show individuals. Right. If you're a company that provides, you know, a service, you're able to show that, hey, part of my staff are people with disabilities and they are capable workers because the more people see, the more they get curious and then the more people we're able to reach, and then that shifts the dynamic of affirming people with disabilities and employment and society as a whole.

Mandi: Yeah. And I'm going to play a little bit of devil's advocate here, and I want to know what your response is to people who would say something like that is unfair to non-disabled people. Like, I'm thinking about all of the debates and conversations that have happened around things like affirmative action and this idea even of reverse discrimination and so this idea of giving a handout or a leg up, so to speak, to a community that has historically been oppressed, that and doing something to try to uplift that community and provide opportunities, and having those people who say, well, that is not fair because that is discriminating against me for being non-disabled or that is favoring a group of people over, you know, the typically not oppressed group. How do you respond to that?

Steven: Well, okay, so first I would say, if it's phrased that way, I would say that you're making it seem like we're just picking people at random. And that's not usually how any of this works. People are screened, people are interviewed, skills are assessed to make sure that these people are qualified to meet a standard. The second part of it is, if you feel like it's taking away from you, I would encourage you to look at the world as a whole where this would not need to be put in place if proper access and proper knowledge was readily available. And the standard we would hold that this would just be the start where, okay, you know, 5%, right. And then people realize oh, hey, we can do more than 5%. And then eventually it becomes a universal standard where everybody has the same access. So it's not about hiring, you know, one versus the other. So it's just a matter of qualifications.

Mandi: Yeah, I really like what you said about being able to take a step back, so to speak, and look at the world or look at society as a whole. And that kind of being one of the main arguments against someone who says, well, this is unfair. Because to your point, taking a step back, looking at the bigger picture, we can see how, whether it's the workplace or public access to things, just our system in general is designed already to not allow people with disabilities to have the same access. We live in a world that was created and developed under the system of ableism. And I think that a lot of people don't realize that, especially as individuals who say, well, I don't discriminate, I'm not against hiring people with disabilities, disabilities. But they don't necessarily see how the systems already favor non-disabled people, whether that's our expectations for how people show up to work or expectations for the amount of time that people work. I've definitely had this argument so many times where I'm like, if I can finish something in four hours, why do I need to spend another four hours in the office trying to make up work? Right. If I can do it in four, why do I need to be there for eight? And that's simply because there's this expectation that you talked about before that 9 to 5 is the standard of work. So I really appreciate that kind of argument of if somebody is saying that this is a handout or, you know, this is unfair or like reverse discrimination, they really need to take a step back and look at how our society is set up to favor non-disabled people. So that was really powerful. I want to kind of go back to talking about access in the workplace and workplaces that promote themselves as inclusive. What would you say are some red flags that a workplace isn't truly accessible, even if they claim to be?

Steven: I mean, the easiest thing is how wide is your doorway? Right. If I can just make it through, it's not really accessible. Right. And so I, as we go by the, the New York standard of accessibility, anytime that I can't access something on my own, free and easily, it's not considered accessible. So if I can't reach an outlet, right. If I'm in the office and I need to plug my phone charger in and I can't access the outlet on my own, it's one inch out of my reach, and I have to ask somebody for assistance by New York law, that is not accessible because accessibility is supposed to be that I can access something free and easily. I'm simplifying it. I can't remember the exact wording, but basically, I should be able to access anywhere and anything free and easily on my own without asking for assistance, without requiring the assistance.

Mandi: I really appreciate the examples around the physical accessibility. And I know for me, I have definitely said that I would rather work in a place where I have limited physical accessibility but where the workplace culture is accessible than the reverse of that, because they've definitely been in places where people's attitudes, so to speak, or kind of, they can make you feel unwelcome or like you don't belong. And I know, for me, like, that is a real barrier. And I think that we sometimes overlook how the community or colleagues or our supervisors, even how those kinds of attitudes can have such a negative impact on our work experience. So for me, I know I would rather go somewhere where I have to try and squeeze through the door, but I know that I'm welcome, and I know that, you know, people are going to be willing to try and break that wall down for me to have more access than to be in a place where maybe it is more physically accessible. But I feel unwelcomed or I feel judged. So I definitely think that workplace culture can have an impact on accessibility, too, that we don't often talk about. What do you think about that?

Steven: Yeah, workplace culture. I've been lucky enough where I've experienced both ends, where I worked for a culture that is very inviting and very helpful. And then I've worked for a culture where, you know, they weren't so inviting. And so, you know, you kind of have to make yourself small and, you know, feel like, oh, I can't ask for. For something. So culture is very important for everyone's mental health. Right. So I would definitely agree that there are certain things that I think we both understand from a professional and a personal standpoint regarding accessibility, where it's like, okay, yes, this isn't the greatest accessible place, but these people are willing to, like, do you need this? Do you need that? They. They have a. A good understanding of, oh, let me make sure that before you come through the door, this is clear for you. This is reachable for you. You know, nobody messed with your space. So I would. I would definitely agree with you that I would rather have, you know, a culture that is more accepting than, you know, A very accessible space where even if you kind of needed some assistance, you kind of felt off foot or, you know, something like that.

Mandi: Yeah, for sure. And I want to dig into your expertise a little bit more for some of our listeners. I want to know for people with disabilities who may feel stuck or burnt out or even discouraged by this job surging, right. Which I think can be difficult even for non disabled people and is more challenging when you have a disability, what would you want them to know, those folks who are really feeling this discouragement?

Steven: Okay, so first off, I've, I've been there, right. I know exactly how I feel and I was lucky enough to have a support system where as I'm going through this job search, some people were, you know, lending a hand a little bit, you know, finding resources, offering encouragement and things like that. So the first thing I would say is try to find, you know, a peer or someone that, you know, lifts your spirit, that understands what you're going through. So that way you can converse with them about like, look, man, like, today wasn't a good day. I really didn't find much or what have you, or maybe you got, you know, a rejection letter and you really took it to heart and you just need someone to hold space with. The second thing that I would say is that because job searching can be so daunting, I think it was helpful for me and I tell this to my clients. Set aside a specific amount of time that you're going to work on it. Right. I feel like the old way of thinking was feed job searching like a full time job, meaning that you work on it eight hours a day, five days a week, and if you have the energy to do so, by all means. I'm not saying don't do it, but what I'm saying is it can be so daunting from one day to the next that sometimes maybe just doing it 30 minutes a day, you know, is best for you. Because people don't talk about this. I feel like people don't talk about this often enough. Rejection in any form feels terrible. And that doesn't even mean like you get directly rejected, right? Where you get the actual email saying, I'm sorry, we decided not to move, you know, move along with you and we appreciate your, your time and your effort and please sign up for our, you know, talent pool, something like that. Right. Rejection could be not getting response at all, which happens to everyone in the job search space. So keeping that in mind, having a schedule where, okay, I might do 30 minutes today, maybe an hour Tomorrow. It helps manage the not so positive things that that can happen during this whole process.

Mandi: I love that idea and I will definitely use that for any future times when I'm looking for work. I love the idea of essentially taking care of your mental health, your wellness, your own energy. I think that is really important and I kind of want to talk about some of that tension of balancing your with working. So there is often a tension between wanting to work and especially for people with disabilities, needing to protect your benefits, your energy and your health. Are there other ways besides kind of this time blocking that you just shared with us? Are there other ways that you help people navigate that tension?

Steven: In my current role, I share my experiences and how I navigate my challenges. Because a lot of the challenges that my clients face are either ones that I'm going through right now or things that I have gone through, you know, previously. Additionally, I am a certified benefits counselor. I don't utilize it in my current role, but I recently, in the fall of last year got certified. So I'm able to, to explain how certain benefits would be affected should they return to work. And I'm able to explain it both on the number side and also like on the, on the personal side of how things could change or how, you know, things should be navigated and communicate it. So that way they're able to, you know, keep the necessary benefits and explain, you know, the pluses and minuses and the pitfalls. The pitfalls are very important because a lot of people don't talk about the pitfalls that could potentially happen in making the shift, you know, completely on benefits or partially on benefits to full time employment.

Mandi: I really appreciate that role that you play because, and others like you because it is really important and is something that is very difficult and I think keeps many people with disabilities out of the workforce even when they do want to do something that they're passionate about or when they do just feel that they want to contribute to society in that way by entering the workforce, the challenges of maintaining oftentimes life critical services and benefits, you know, when you have to choose between having someone there to help you take care of your basic needs, like using the restroom and brushing your teeth or going to work, you know, you end up choosing the more life saving, critical service. And that is just not a choice. Right? It's not really a choice when it's between your health and your life and going into an office or going to work. And that is part of why I do really love the fact that at least here in America, we do have the ability to be entrepreneurs, and we have the ability to have our own businesses and create that flexibility for ourselves. So with yourself also being a creative entrepreneur, I'd love for you to share how creating and selling journals became part of your work.

Steven: So I started creating and selling journals in 2022. It became sort of like a side project where everybody was looking into, like, side hustles on how to make, like, a little extra money on the side, and then passive income, what have you. And then, as we all know, once you look up one or two things on the Internet, then your algorithm kind of shifts to, you know, those things that you look up. And then, you know, you're seeing how people do it and you're wondering, hey, can I do it? And things like that. And so not a lot of people know, but my original, original employment desire when I was young and in high school was to be a graphic designer. And so, you know, I was heavily into Photoshop, and I was pretty good at it. Art does run in my family where, you know, we. We have a way with, you know, pencils and pens where we can create beautiful things. And so I was like, hey, you know, let me see if I could dabble. And so I created my first few books, and I'm like, okay, this is cool. And. And so I just created more stuff. And the way I looked at it in the beginning was, let's see what happens. Maybe I could get a sale, maybe I won't, but at least I could try. And it was relatively low risk, where it's not like I have. I have to hold inventory or anything like that. I just have to create my designs, and as long as they're approved, they're put on Amazon. And so it started off as like a. A side hustle, a side project. It was something to basically help my mental health. During that time, I was still 100% remote in my previous role, and, you know, I had a little extra time on my hands. And so it just became something fun. And then now, due to, again, the challenges, I had to leave my previous role in 2023. I do still have those books. I haven't really created anything new, but, you know, it was just important for me to represent my community and my people.

Mandi: I think that's awesome. And I'll definitely be sure to include your author page in the show notes, so if folks want to check that out, they can. And on that note, I'm interested to know what you would say to disabled people who are curious about maybe starting their own business. Or just, you know, entrepreneurship, but maybe they're a little afraid that it's not realistic for them.

Steven: I would say that every single company that has been successful was once a dream by the creators and was looked upon as something unrealistic. And there, I'd say silly. And they proved those people wrong. So I would say that if you're afraid to do it, I mean, I was afraid to do it as well. You know, starting out, you know, self employment was never really at the forefront of my mind. And at a certain point I was just like, well, if people have taken the leap and they've been successful, who says that I can't? The people that usually aren't so successful are the people that haven't taken the leap at all. So I would just say that if you have an idea in your mind, by all means do the, do the research, right? Do the work to see how you can make it happen. And then if you can make it happen, just do it. Because then you'll be one of the very few people that actually put in the effort to do it. And you never know when it's gonna bloom. Your day can come as, as long as you put in the work and you have the desire to.

Mandi: A hundred percent. And I agree with the idea of not letting time be a barrier, because I think about this even for myself, you know, Oprah didn't really get her big break until she was 40. I think about Colonel Sanders from KFC. He was, I believe, in his 70. KFC really became a big thing. And so it's never too late. I 100% agree with that. If you don't take the chance, then, you know, you're never going to know what can happen. But don't let your age or, you know, how, how much time you may have let passed be a barrier. So I really appreciate that. As we're wrapping up, I want to know if you could change one thing about how our society approach approaches disability and employment, what would it be?

Steven: I would change the way our benefit system works when it comes to people with disabilities. We are put on income restrictions and certain other restrictions that basically say, like, oh, if you could go to work, you're not disabled. And like, no, that's not the case. Like, I'm able to work because of what I have in place, and just because I'm disabled, that doesn't mean that you should limit my income to depending on who you are. It could be $2,000 a month. We have to carefully navigate every single year, if not every six Months to make sure that the I's are dotted and the T's are crossed and then, you know, the property, you know, paperwork is submitted. So that way they don't look at us and be like, you're not disabled, you're completely cut off or you know, you're not disabled and we're going to, you know, restrict your services and things like that. So I would change basically the whole benefit system for people with disabilities.

Mandi: I would be right there with you in wanting to change that system. And I definitely hope to do a future episode to help those who may not be familiar with how our benefit system works, especially when it comes to medical care and access needs for people with disabilities. I hope to be able to do an episode with possibly an attorney who can share a little bit more about what that looks like, at least here in New York, but also just around the ADA and American society in general. But I'm definitely with you on the need to really review this process and to create a system that is not keeping people with disabilities dependent on these benefits and that is not making us continue to have penalties for just living our day to day lives and wanting to live a life just like a non disabled person. So I really appreciate that point. My last question, I really want to leave folks with some hope for the future. So what gives you hope when it comes to disabled people? Finding meaningful, affirming ways to earn, create and contribute.

Steven: So I'm a very hopeful person. So every day that I get up, I'm hopeful for, you know, a better tomorrow, not only for myself, but, you know, for the people around me, the people I care about, and our community as a whole. I would say the, the key things for me and remaining hopeful is realizing the value that I can offer the world, right? Even though the world might not see it right now, I know that I can offer some value. And, and value doesn't have to have, you know, a monetary component to, could just be helping someone today, right? If I, if I speak to a client and they're like, oh my goodness, I'm really so glad that you were able to hold space with me, with me and, and, and you know, help me think about this, that's a win for me, right? If I'm able to solve a problem that I had no idea how to solve yesterday, that's a win for me. To be able to help people that I know that I can, right? I know that I am, I am capable. Whether it's for myself or another person. That's what gives me the hope to continue moving forward.

Mandi: I love that your hope is so deeply embedded in some of the principles of disability justice, the idea of the collective care, collective liberation, seeing not just yourself experience the greatest life, but being able to help others who are maybe in similar situations. So I really love that you have that justice mindset and I'm really so grateful for you coming on the shows today and sharing your expertise and your own personal experiences. And like I said, I'll be sure to share your author page and hope folks that go and check out your journals and notebooks on Amazon. So thank you so much for your time today and sharing your expertise with us.

Steven: Thank you really again for this opportunity.

Mandi: Thanks so much for tuning into today's interview. Since we've now talked about sexuality, parenting, boundaries and employment, I'd love to know what other theme you'd like to hear through a disability justice lens. Visit my website at mandiboxbeauty.com to contact me or DM me on Instagram at intersectional underscore access and let me know what theme you're most interested in.

If you're looking for ways to continue supporting this podcast, including ensuring I can provide transcripts for accessibility, try clicking on the new Power the Podcast button on my website. Your support can be an act of resistance.

Next week we'll have a special interview with a third culture, kid and author as we explore disability and culture. Remember, disability, liberation, love are always beyond beautiful.

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