Beyond Litigation

Beyond Beautiful: Disability, Liberation, Love

Season 2, Episode 9 - Beyond Litigation

🎧 Listen to the Episode

🧭 Episode Summary

For this International Women's Day, I sat down with Bryanna Copeland — a mom, Master of Social Work student, Miss Wheelchair New York participant, and disability advocate who shares her lived experience navigating motherhood, higher education, and public spaces as a wheelchair user.

Bryanna speaks openly about her experience as a Black disabled single mom, including the barriers she faced with a local transportation company that ultimately led her to pursue legal action.

But this conversation goes beyond the lawsuit.

We talk about intersectionality, advocacy, parenting, and how society often misunderstands independence when it comes to disabled people.

🎙 Guest

Bryanna Copeland is a mom, Master of Social Work student, and disability advocate who shares her lived experience navigating motherhood, higher education, and public spaces as a wheelchair user. Her work centers on accessibility, parenting equity, and challenging everyday ableism through honest storytelling and advocacy.

💬 Key Themes

• Navigating the U.S. Legal System

• Intersectionality

• Interdependence

• Challenging Assumptions

🚨Partnership

Intersectional Access has a new partnership with Buoy, a company that creates hydration drops designed to support people living with chronic illnesses and conditions where maintaining hydration is especially important. Before agreeing to collaborate, I reached out to my community to hear about their experiences, and many people shared that Buoy has been helpful for managing symptoms and staying hydrated. One thing that stood out to me is their Chronic Illness Support Program, which offers people living with chronic illness 35% off their orders for life. If you use my referral link, you’ll receive 60% off your first subscription. Everyone else will receive 20% off their orders. I do earn a small commission from purchases made through the link, and that support helps sustain the podcast and the work I do to amplify disability-centered conversations. Use this Referral Link.

📜 Full Transcript

Mandi: Welcome to Beyond Disability Liberation Love. I'm Mandi, your Queer Christian Disabled host. Today's episode, Beyond Litigation, feels especially meaningful as it comes out on International Women's Day, a time when we celebrate the strength, leadership, and achievements of women across the globe. But when we talk about celebrating women, we also have to ask an important question. Which women are we including in that celebration? Too often, disabled women, especially disabled women of color, are left out of the conversation. Their leadership, advocacy, and everyday resilience rarely get the recognition they deserve. Here on Beyond Beautiful, we believe disabled women deserve not just visibility, but celebration, respect, and space to tell their own stories. In today's episode, I'm joined by Briana Copeland, a mom, master of social work student, recent Participant in the Ms. Wheelchair New York competition, and disability advocate. She shares her lived experience navigating motherhood, higher education, and public spaces as a wheelchair user. Briana speaks candidly about her experience as a black disabled single mom, including her decision to file a lawsuit against a local transportation company after encountering barriers that should never have existed in the first place. But this conversation goes beyond litigation. We talk about intersectionality, advocacy, and the way society often misunderstands independence when it comes to disabled people. Brianna's story challenges us to think more deeply about access, accountability, and what true inclusion really looks like.

And before we get into that conversation, I want to let you know that if you stay with us through the full episode, I'll be sharing a special announcement about a new partnership that I'm really excited to tell you about. Now let's dive into today's episode, Beyond Litigation.

Mandi: Hi, Bryanna. Welcome to Beyond Beautiful. I'm looking forward to our chat today. How are you?

Bryanna: I'm doing well. How are you?

Mandi: I'm great. I'm happy. There was some sunshine here today. I know it's supposed to snow again. I don't know about you, but I am over the snow.

Bryanna: Oh, yes, yes. Very, very much over it.

Mandi: Looking forward to spring, for sure. So I would love for you to introduce yourself to the listeners for those who haven't met you in any way that feels comfortable to you. Okay?

Bryanna: So my name is Bryanna. I am currently in my final year of grad school for social work, as well as a mom, a single mom to a very active toddler. And I just, you know, I think a lot of what and who I represent myself as is just someone that really is passionate about, like, human rights. I was born with, with the bilateral amputation, so above the knee since birth. So disability is just something that's always been with me, the disability world, disability life, and it's just a part of who I am. So now I'm just a single mom raising my daughter while trying to, like, navigate the systems that just are not always the best thing. But we're doing it anyways.

Mandi: I hear that. I hear that. And thank you for being so open about your different identities. And we're definitely going to dig into some of what you shared around systems and how you're navigating the world. So let's jump right into that. As a disabled, black single mom and a bilateral amputee from birth, how have your intersecting identities shaped how you move through the world?

Bryanna: So, I mean, I feel like there's never really a separation for me. Being black, being disabled, and then being a mother, I feel like some way they all kind of intertwine, you know, like, when I go into spaces, people already have an assumption about one of those three things alone. And then, you know, there's already an assumption of that. But then I think I've already learned to, like, always try to, like, have that advocate mind in my head. So I think I just have to say, like, my identities have probably made me more aware of how the systems work and then how they fail, how they fail people. But then it just made me more intentional about, like, raising my daughter because she, obviously, she's watching how I'm navigating it all and the difficulties and, you know, the struggles and everything in between.

Mandi: Yeah, I definitely hear that and appreciate you bringing up how our children see things right. And how much they can learn from just what they observe. And I know you said your daughter is a toddler, but even just starting from an early age, children are like sponges, literally. And as a mom myself, I totally align with that and trying to always be conscious of how I'm moving through the worlds and what that looks like to them. So that's definitely a shift, shared experience between us. You mentioned people's assumptions about parts of your identity or the ways that your identities mix together. So can you share what some of the assumptions that people make about you before they even know your story are?

Bryanna: You know, definitely the assumption of, like, that I need help before asking. Like, for instance, today we went to the Children's Museum, and I was in the bathroom changing Jayda. And mind you, that, no, it was not in anybody's way, anybody's face. And this woman just randomly comes up and she's like, well, how can I help you? Do you need any help? And I'm like, no, no, you know, I just. I think she automatically thought the wheelchair a child. And like, I. I somehow couldn't do it independently. And I think that's a. Not. That's just one example. But I think that's what happens, and that's what people automatically assume when they do see me is that I can't do something even if I'm without my daughter. It could just be getting on the bus. Somebody thinks that I need help to get on the bus, so definitely it's just them assuming that I need help or even asking the question.

Mandi: Yeah, I've always found it really difficult to navigate that because I'm definitely the kind of person who often assumes kindness or tries to give people the benefit of the doubt. And so for me, it's really hard because I do think people in their own minds really believe they're showing a kindness when they offer help, especially in situations like the one you described. But it does give me pause and makes me reflect on just how deeply embedded ableism is into our society, that we see someone who maybe operates differently than a non disabled person or differently than the standard, so to speak. And so we feel this need to just jump in and offer help or make these assumptions that they must need something from us. So it's really a difficult place to navigate because there's both this level of, oh, this person's trying to be kind and compassionate, but also it is insulting and very ableist to assume that because I'm doing this in a wheelchair or I'm doing this in a different way that I need help. So it's really interesting and I appreciate you bringing that up. Hopefully it will make our listeners really take pause before they jump in.

Bryanna: Yeah, no, definitely. I mean, yeah, I definitely do think that, but yeah.

Mandi: And I know you actually mentioned the bus and transportation, and I would really love if you're comfortable to get into a little bit about what happens with the local bus company that led you to pursue legal action.

Bryanna: So after I came home from college, you know, I lived in college, I learned how to live independently. So it was kind of. I assumed that I would come home and that that would still continue. And so I decided to get a job. And I'm like, well, ma, I'm gonna take the regular bus like everybody else, thinking that it was gonna work. And I was finding, like, time and time that, like, I would try to get on the bus and the driver would say the ramp's not working. Or they couldn't for some reason just make up some excuse on why they couldn't pick Me up. And after a while, I realized that this was an issue because I wasn't able to get from point A to point B. And it took a while for me to kind of, like, figure out what to do, how to do it. And then I think I, like, came across somebody that said to just, you know, file human rights case. So I'm like, okay, I don't know what it takes or what it is. I said, but I'm going to do it. And I did it. I ended up not getting any legal representation. Took a chance, but I had all the evidence against, like, the bus company just. And the bus driver, even just them bluntly leaving me. We ended up winning. I ended up winning the case. Now there have been somewhat of change, but it's more protocols in place now that, like, they're more aware of the issue and that New York State is more aware of it.

Mandi: Oh, my goodness. Well, congratulations first off on winning your case. And I think this is where I start to consider a lot in disability justice, because the work that you did for an experience that you were having has such an impact on so many people who I'm sure were experiencing the same things you did. But like you said, you took a chance. And there are so many people who maybe either are afraid to do that or feel that they don't have the resources or capacity to do that. So you doing it really paves away for others who were having similar experiences. So you kind of mentioned being able to, like, collect the evidence, so to speak. How did you do that? Like, I'm sure we have listeners who have situations where they probably feel like they want to use the legal system but just don't know where to start. So where did you start?

Bryanna: You know, honestly, I just turned to Google and I realized, like, what they were doing was an act of discrimination. And so I've learned now that human rights is, like, your best way to, like, get started with it. So I was able to, like, email. Like, I would send emails to the company whenever something happened. I was able to pull those. Those emails, pull, like, timestamps of when I actually make calls. And, you know, they have to keep a log as well. I realized after that I, you know, started the case because when we went to court, they had to show proof of all of the logs of me actually calling. But I just made sure that, like, whether it was on my phone, I put the time that I got, you know, I was trying to get on the bus. Something in my. Like, my. My use my. I used my phone to the best of my ability. That way I would be able to continue documenting that once I get, you know, officially document it once I got home.

Mandi: Yeah, that's really helpful. I think that documentation piece and the fact that you did it in different ways, whether it was recording something on your phone or just making use of the documentation that exists to your point, there was documentation being completed on their end as well and being able to make use of that. So thanks so much for sharing that. I am curious to know, in your experience with public transportation or even in other public spaces, do you feel that there is a difference for you in having two historically marginalized identities with being black and disabled? Do you feel that your experience in these spaces or in the type of discrimination that you've experienced are different?

Bryanna: You know, I would also add in being a woman into that because I definitely find that with a lot of my issues are transportation, either bus drivers, conductors, you name it. And I find that not that they're like, it's a me being a woman. I think they just automatically know that I'm going to speak up and speak out, so they have to be 10 times stronger than me. And I kind of, like, see how it works. But then I realize, oh, okay, you're doing this because I'm a woman. And then I, you know, have a different way of approaching.

Mandi: Yeah, no, I totally hear that. And I think that it's really important for people to understand exactly what you're saying, that there are these layered experiences that we can have based on multiple different identities. So I really appreciate you bringing that to light. And also, I know, like, for you, it's probably like, oh, my gosh, baby's crying. But I love it. I'm sure our listeners will love it. This is real. It's raw, right? Like, you're a mom, so no worries at all. What did the process that you went through using our legal system teach you about the system itself, about yourself, or about who the system is actually designed to protect?

Bryanna: You know, I think if anything this. It's taught me that, like, the really about the legal protection doesn't automatically, like, equal, like, protection. Because there's so many instances where as soon as something happens, they go, oh, well, liability, or like, oh, we can't do this because of this, or it happened this way because of this. They're so quick to, like, put a liability. But I got left in the rain. It's definitely like, they. It's a liability thing. So I, you know, it's Taught me that, like, my voice has to carry more, and it does carry more by actually speaking out. And I realized if I don't speak out, I don't get along the way.

Mandi: When you are speaking out, do you feel that it's really just for you or do you have this kind of in the back of your mind that you're also speaking out for a larger community?

Bryanna: It's definitely for a larger community. And when I send emails or talk to someone on the phone, I always, like, specify, like, this is not only for me. For instance, again, the snow that we just had, they made this little pathway for people to get on the bus. I said, well, somebody with a mobility aid wouldn't be able to get on the bus. You know, I'm always thinking about the next person. You know, I don't think that happened most times, especially now, given, you know, the situation of this world. And a lot of people are like, well, what about yourself? And I'm like, yeah, I'm included in it as well. But there's still other people around me that I know that can use that same accommodation.

Mandi: I love that because in previous episodes I've definitely talked about allyship and what makes a good ally. And I think when we think about allyship, sometimes we think of it as one directional or in a certain way and only thinking about, you know, non disabled people being allies. But the truth is, even within the disabled disability community, we can't. We can and should be allies to each other. So, you know, I am a fellow wheelchair user, but I often am thinking about friends or other folks in the community who have other types of disabilities, whether they're blind or low vision or deaf or hard of hearing. And how do the things that I'm doing or the ways that I'm navigating in the world like, also impact them. And I want to make sure that when I am advocating, I'm advocating with the entire community in mind. And I think about that for non disabled people. I recently had a friend actually tell me that they went somewhere and realized that the location wasn't wheelchair accessible and how bothered they were and how they realized, like, how different of a mindset they have now in having a relationship with people, you know, with a person who has a disability who is a wheelchair user, and how it kind of gave them this new insight to things that they do or experiences that they have. And I just think you're right, you know, if. If our world were more like that, if we were constantly not just thinking about, how does this impact me but also the people around me, we would be in such a better place. So I agree with that a hundred percent. So earlier we were talking a little bit about your parenting, and I know you were mentioning not really wanting people to just step in and assume that you need help when you don't. But I know when we've previously spoken that you did share a little bit about the community that you've built around you and the ways that you are able to be even more independent because of the community that you have. And so how is interdependence different from the hyper independence that society expects from disabled people, especially black women?

Bryanna: You know, I think they're. I, I think that society like definitely expects disabled people, especially black women, to either be completely self sufficient or completely dependent. Like there's no middle ground. So I think interdependence means recognizing that everyone relies on somebody and that it's normal, it's human. The difference is that disabled people are just more shamed for it. And I'm hoping that by like me being out in the world, I'm able to like show that like you can have help and still be, still be independent as well. You know, there's different ways of being independent.

Mandi: I love that there are different ways to being independent. And that is really something that should be on a quote on a T shirt because I think we do live in a society specifically here in America where we try to create this uniform definition of things. Whenever I'm doing trainings around disability, that's always where I start. I'm like, is there really and truly one definition of disability? And we kind of start talking about the different models and how different definitions and benefit certain groups and not others. So I love that idea that even independence also means different things to different people. And as someone who depends on a caregiver and has like higher physical care needs, I always say, like, for me, my independence really comes from my ability to choose who I rely on for different parts of my life or different things that I want to do. And it is such a different way of viewing independence. It's not necessarily me doing it by myself, but just having the choice of who is doing it with me or who's helping me to have that independence or have that activity done. So I appreciate that concept. So what would true equity look like to you?

Bryanna: I mean, I definitely think not having to fight for like basic transportation, right? Basic things that like everyone should have equal access to. I would like to see more like proactive accessibility more than like reactive. Like I think we are so quick to just react when an issue happens and not actually like, all right, well, here's the issue. But, like, what can we do to better the situation for everybody? You know, now that you know that there's an issue, now that you know that somebody has a lawsuit or someone speaking out against something proactive, definitely important, and I think is a huge difference between really being accessible versus being accommodating. We need to stop being in a world where we're trying to fit people into a system that was clearly not done well, it was not created in a way that was inclusive of everyone. And we're almost backtracking now trying to fit people into the system instead of just thinking about how can we redesign the system or what can we do differently? And I think that has truly been the hardest thing about kind of the climate that we're in right now for me, is seeing people push back against wanting to be more inclusive. And, you know, we could get into an entire conversation about people feeling like they're losing power and that being the reason that they don't want to really be inclusive or really redesign the system. So I won't get into all of that on this episode, but I do think it's important what you're saying about being proactive and actually working from an accessible mindset instead of just trying to backtrack and fix everything or trying to fit people in where they truly don't fit in to begin with.

Bryanna: Yeah, definitely.

Mandi: So, as we are wrapping up, I have kind of two final questions for you. The first one is, what would you want other disabled parents, especially black disabled mothers, to hear?

Bryanna: today when you're asking for help, you're not asking for too much. You're not being dramatic, you're not being difficult. If something feels inaccessible for you and you're not able to navigate the space with your child or children, it is inaccessible. And then, you know, you. That's your lived experience, and it's valued. It should be valid and valued. So definitely just continue to speak out, because you're definitely not asking for too much.

Mandi: I love that. Thank you so much. And bringing that to a little bit of a broader scale for listeners who might work in public health policies or even in the transit system, what is one thing that they need to understand about the disability experience?

Bryanna: I have been saying this time in and time after that accessibility is just not a feature. It's something that everyone, at some point, relies on. Whether or not you think about it or not, you use some form of accessibility. And if your system only works for one particular type of people. It was not designed to be equal. And I think that's just the assumption of them. You know, a lot of companies and a lot of like transportation company, they just automatically think, well, if it can work for one person and it doesn't work if one person can't get on, it's not working for all. So, yeah, definitely. You know, accessibility, not a feature. It's something that needs to be universal for everyone.

Mandi: Yeah. Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. And this idea that it is more than a checkbox also, right, like, just saying, well, we added a ramp doesn't necessarily, to your point, benefit everyone. A ramp is not necessarily going to benefit someone who's blind or someone who can't hear. Like, what are we doing for all of these other people who also need the same access? So I really appreciate that, especially, you know, as someone who's in the disability community, the way that you are thinking about not just yourself, but really liberation for everyone. So thank you so much, Brianna, for your time. I know as a mom, it can be really difficult to carve out time to have these types of conversations. So thank you so much for taking the time to be on the show and share your experience, experience today and for all of the advocacy that you are doing that is changing and positively impacting the disability community at large and really everyone. Because when we make things more accessible for disabled people, it is often, if not always, more accessible for everyone.

Bryanna: Yes, yes, definitely. Thank you so much for having me.

Mandi: Thank you so much for tuning in to today's episode. If it resonated with you, please consider leaving a review. Before we close out today's episode, I want to take a moment to share something new and exciting. If you've been listening for a while, you know that I'm very intentional about partnerships. I only collaborate with brands that align with disability justice and that my community actually finds helpful. Recently, Bouy reached out to me about partnering and before accepting, I did what I always do. I asked you. I reached out to my community to see if people had experience with their products. And I heard from several folks living with chronic illnesses who shared that Bouy is legitimate and genuinely helpful for managing hydration and symptoms support. So I decided to move forward with the partnership. If you're not familiar with Bouy, they make hydration drops designed to support people with chronic illness pots and other conditions where staying hydrated is critical but not always easy. One thing I especially appreciate is their chronic illness support program. If you live with a chronic illness. You can apply and receive 35% off your Bouy orders for Life. And because of this partnership, I'm able to offer listeners some additional discounts. If you use my referral link in the show notes, you'll receive 60% off your first subscription and anyone using the Link will receive 20% off their order. I also want to be transparent that I do earn a small commission from purchases made through that link. That commission helps support the production of this podcast and allows me to keep bringing these conversations to you.

Speaking of supporting the podcast, I have something else exciting coming on March 21st, I'll be launching my first digital mini guide just in time for those spring flames. It's a script guide designed to help people name their access needs before, during and after a date. Because access shouldn't stop at the workplace or healthcare, it belongs in our relationships too, and there is a way to get a copy for free. My goal is to reach 500 podcast downloads by March 21st. If you help spread the word by sharing an episode or one of my

posts and tag me on Instagram at intersectional_access, you'll be entered into a drawing to receive the guide for free. Finally, next week's episode is a special one. This podcast is participating in Podcastathon, a global initiative where podcasters dedicate an episode to highlighting a non profit or charitable organization they care about. In next week's episode, you'll hear about the organization I chose to spotlight along with a powerful conversation with a disability impacted family about the role community support can play in their lives. You won't want to miss it. And remember, disability, liberation, love are always beyond beautiful.

💌 Stay Connected

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